My Open Letter to Mark Driscoll



There has already been a lot of ink spilled out over the last few days regarding your visit to the Strange Fire Conference. Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and the Blogosphere has had more people weigh in on what they believe happened than is necessary (The best I’ve read is this one).There’s been so much speculation, accusation and presumption that it’s hard to know what the truth is anymore. So why in the world would I be adding myself into the mixture? Let’s just say, you’ve given me a platform that I never wanted, a unique, first hand perspective. You see those two guys you’re talking to? The one on the left side there, wearing the striped shirt? The ridiculously handsome one? Yeah, that’s me. (And just for clarity, I do not represent Grace Community Church or The Master’s Seminary, or am deceived enough to think I’m ridiculously handsome).

I’ve always been aware that you are an incredibly influential leader within the Christian community. Your books make bestsellers lists and your conferences are sellouts. I guess I’ve never realized how much of an impact you had until Friday morning, when we met. In under a minute from the time you posted this:

My phone received texts and alerted me to facebook notices and twitter mentions from Florida, Illinois, Louisiana, California, Canada and Seattle. All within the first minute! Some of those people I haven’t heard from in over 10 years. For the next two hours, my phone remained plugged into a charger because the battery couldn’t handle the amount of activity your one picture exposed it to. Three days later, phone calls and notifications continue to pour in, literally from all over the world. We truly live in a technologically-connected age. But with great power, comes great responsibility.

Mr. Driscoll, I’m not here to sling mud. That’s just not me, and honestly, I know you’ll probably never see this letter. But as one who is himself preparing for ministry and the pastorate, the example that you have displayed to me and others in your brief time at the Strange Fire Conference, and also in the days following, has not been the gracious, loving example that I believe should characterize a man of God. I feel like I need you need to stand up and act like a man.

Just to briefly recap, I could hardly believe it when I saw you announced via twitter:

The first thing that came to my mind when I read this was… PR stunt. I don’t know, and I’m not about to assume I know what you were thinking, but the time you sent that was brilliant. 9:01 AM – the opening morning session with Conrad Mbewe was just starting. He was beginning a brilliant message and your arrival on campus would be just as the session let out. Not a lot of time for people to prepare. What better way to shock the attendees and staff by being there right when they were not expecting you. If you didn’t think it would be a shock and create a scene, than I’m giving you much more credit than you deserve.

Instead, by your own admission, you were met graciously by the Grace Community Church staff and security. You told the Christian Post that you thought it was “Gracious that they let me on campus at all.” Adding that, “they don’t owe me anything and I didn’t go through an official process. I wasn’t planning on it. I just happened to be in town.” Pastor Mark, this statement tells me two things:

  1. You were looking to pick a fight. By your own words you claim that you did not expect to have a good meeting when you arrived on campus. You came to cause a scene and maybe gain some status as a martyr in the promotion of your upcoming book, in which you ironically call for unity within the church and a ceasefire on what you’ve labeled as “tribalism.” Honestly, if your arrival had gone according to how you envisioned and anticipated, it would have been a perfect illustration. I have to wonder though, were you were seeking to start a civil war for promotional reasons?
  2. You schemed. Be honest Pastor Mark, you did not happen to be in town. You were in Long Beach… A trip of over 40 miles on one of America’s most congested freeways. You did not just happen to be in the neighborhood with a reporter and photographer. The only time I see scheming in the scriptures, it does not have positive connotations. Those that are associated with scheming are not ones with which we want to be aligning ourselves. But again, this is my interpretation of what was going on. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Maybe you always have a reporter and photographer with you.

IMG_4080So many people have asked me about the few minutes that we talked. I tell them about how nice you were…very cordial and gracious. It was a pleasant exchange about church planting, ministry and the last time you were in my homeland of Canada. While you were here, it was rather nice. There’s plenty that we do not agree upon, but that does not mean we have to throw away civility. When it was time for you to leave, I watched some of the staff of Grace Community Church walk back with you to your car, even offering to carry the box of books you brought. The box of books you returned to them, insisting they were a gift.  And I heard friendly conversation and even joking banter between you and the head of security.

Kanye West and Taylor SwiftHonestly, I and many others were impressed by how well you conducted yourself on campus, even though it seemed like you were pulling a Kanye West inspired move. That is why I was so shocked, when you drove off campus and immediately sent out this tweet:

All of us who were present were rather horrified at the blatant lie you sent to your 428,247 twitter followers, 39,556 Instagram and 218,335 Facebook friends.

King David messed up. 2 Samuel 11 details his great sin with Bathsheba. For a year, David lets the adultery and murder and lies fester in his heart and sear his conscience. He knows he’s guilty, yet he ignores his fault and hides it. Pastor Mark, don’t be guilty of hiding your sin and ignoring it. This past Sunday I saw a little girl take some rocks from a plant bed even after her mother told her to put them back. But instead, she put them in the seat of her stroller and then used a blanket to cover the rocks up, hoping no one would see them. I noticed that immediately when you were called out and confronted, you became very active on your social media sites, in turn, burying what you had said far below the news feeds. You have yet to come clean.

I still am shocked at seeing my picture float around Facebook and the various Christian news outlets. I never realized my 15 minutes of fame would come with so much baggage attached. In all honesty, I walk away unscathed. I just have to put up with getting teased by friends and family over the fact that they’re seeing me everywhere online. However, I was not the brunt of a lie and I do hurt for my dear friend who you falsely accused in a public arena and presented in a way that is far from accurate. I cannot understand how you feel justified in presenting someone who was gracious to you, someone who offered to help you carry things, someone who treated you like a gentleman…as a villain. You threw this man under a bus as he was carrying your things.

indexThankfully, his upright character is so well-known to those at Grace Community Church that most people were surprised to see him portrayed as such. This is a real man, one who acts like a man. He’s strong, noble and does his job as head of security with excellence. I have also watched him on numerous occasions, share the gospel passionately with those he is having to contain and discipline. I’ve seen him pleading with those he is working with, inviting them to come to church with him. More concerned for their souls, than for the harm they may inflict on the campus. Please, you have an opportunity to clear his name.

Pastor Mark, you are a man who claims to speak as a man of God, and as a pastor-in-training, I look for examples to follow. When a leader behaves like a child and buries his sin, the example that you set is far from what I see as godly and certainly not one that I want to emulate. Many have already alluded to the irony of the conference you were speaking being called “Act Like Men,” and questioned the authority you have to speak on such a subject, when you remind us of a boy in High School pulling a prank with little discretion and grave consequences

I wish I could come up with a great illustration, like Nathan did for David (2 Samuel 12:1-15), but I can’t. But I do call you to make things right. I call you to examine the motivation for your actions and also apologize to those you need to apologize to. David’s response in Psalm 51 is a true call to repentance. You’ve not only sinned against man, but you’ve sinned against a Holy God. You are a man with lots of influence and you have a tremendous opportunity right now Pastor Mark, to confess  that you were wrong. That you made a mistake and to ask for forgiveness. I can assure you, forgiveness can and will be granted.


Darren Wiebe

This entry was posted in Christian Living and tagged , by Darren Wiebe. Bookmark the permalink.

About Darren Wiebe

Darren is a graduate of Moody Bible Institute and graduated with his M.Div. at The Master’s Seminary in 2014, where he is currently enrolled in the ThM program. Originally from Canada, Darren has served as a pastor of music and youth in Alaska and is now serving as Associate Pastor of Worship at Grace Bible Church of Bakersfield, Bakersfield, CA.
  • Thank you for sharing this brother.

  • Traci Jo Burns Evans

    Bold Move!!! WELL DONE Darren! Protect the flock against the wolf in sheeps’ wool

    • OneWay

      hmmm… has anyone seen this video of what happened?

    • Huh? They’ve swapped out the audio with Amazing Grace . . . this really shows nothing except that someone doesn’t want us to hear the conversation.

      • dmrounder

        Once it’s out, it’s out. See link below. The comments below are pretty
        interesting. What’s missing is the conversation that led up to this
        point; when and how the books ended up in the hands of the alleged LAPD

      • Young Calvinist

        Kristen, the video above is posted on the channel I maintain. Here is the history:

        1. Uploaded October 22, 2013 5:31 PM (GMT)
        2. Received attention on Twitter – from Phil Johnson and others:
        3. Got message from Steve Cha:
        My name is Steve Cha. I am the owner of this Mark Driscoll footage. Grace Church asked that this footage not be shown for the sake of not stirring up any more animosity regarding this situation (regardless of whether it is true or not). Can you please take this video down?
        4. Obscured video and changed soundtrack so link is still available. Disabled heated comments.
        5. Got another message from Steve Cha:
        This is Steve Cha. I’m sorry to bug you again, but there was some miscommunication on our end, and I need to ask you to undo what you did to the video. Please return it to its original form. While the GCC leadership originally asked this not to be showed publicly, once it had gotten out they decided that, “Once it’s out, it’s out.” They are OK with it being shown now, and would appreciate it if you returned it to its original form. Thanks, Steve
        6. Can’t revert changes due to video popularity – over 10,000 views in less than 24 hours.
        7. Comments enabled again.

  • Tyler Fischella

    I have my own short letter to write toward the events taken place, I doubt it will be read but here we go anyways.

    Now, I am trying my very best to be a christian political science major, many people don’t think such a thing exists, and believe me its like dragging your body through waste deep feces. The foolishness and pride people throw up as a mask in government, their hopes of gaining power through scheming and malice, is almost enough to make you want to keel over and die, especially when it has such a incomparably profound impact on society.

    It weighs heavy on my heart and greatly disappoints my mind that the corruption, malice, and scheming of what has transpired today took place at a church. My christianity is the only thing that manages my integrity, my dedication to christ is the only thing that permits me to stay sane in such a convoluted world and working environment. Without the sanctuary of church, the purity of its leaders, my purpose is dead in the water.

    Were all doomed if pastoral men continue to abandon the armor of God, if they leave their armor on the ground, abandon their post, and forget their duty; which is to literally Shepard the church. The enemy will not stop singing his song into the air, he will not rest, he will continue prowling in the fields, waiting for the right moment to strike, and we are giving him that… or the times are prevailing beyond our control.

    If it is the later, then all means of preventing is futile. Therefore, I would like to challenge pastors to pick up their Armor, their dignity, their integrity, their morality, and move onto what they’re is supposed to do. Now addressing Driscoll specifically, with his fire and brimstone theology; it would be pitiful irony if he was the one who brought damnation on the church after talking so much about hell.

    Show us the damnation of earth is fast approaching! Common pastors, forget the bipartisanism, the gospel centered around community, the early church history that focused so much on creed and cooperation. Instead usher in the brokenness and dysfunction that politicians carry, the same division we see inside government assemblies, encapsulate the divide of society within your pulpit, scatter the flocks! Suck on the corrupting power that comes with a platform set up in front of the masses! The red moon arises in 2014, stand your ground or perish in its glimmer.

    Call him crazy; Jeremiah 23:1 “Wow to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering my pasture”.

    • minimay7

      You are sadly mistaken if you paint early church (even under apostolic era) with such rosy colors. Many books in the new testament were written to deal with such quarrels and false teachings/teachers within the church. Even apostle Paul himself had to defend his own position and his authority.

      This is not a case of two godly men fighting. This is a case of a men of God standing firm to declare what is true. And wolves revealing their teeth in the wakes of this conference.

      John MacArthur has never been silent about the false teaching of the charismatic movement for last 30 years or so. He even has 2 books before Strange Fire dealing with the issue.

      It’s interesting that you would elevate the opposing side where you view the latest controversy as mere clash between men of God. This is a battle declared on heretical teachings that dishonors the Lord and the truth revealed in the scripture.

      As political science major, you must understand that any political entity (secular or religious) hold firm to what they hold is true. This is no different. These two sides are both claiming what they teach/practice is true. You must examine it for yourself and decide for yourself which side is proclaiming the truth.

  • ConCal

    I’d love to hear an honest conversation of the theology instead of a she said he said back and forth. With that said, this letter was very well written and Iappreicate your point if view.

  • Andrey Taranov

    Love it. Mark achieved his fame by portraying himself an outcast, rebel, connected, informed, cool, on the verge…. These things are all viewed in the Christian youth as pure gold. That is the reason why his church is so big. He has quantity but not quality. I’m 27 and single that is the audience that would go to his church but I would never go to his hipster, lowercase God church. Deep down inside he is nothing but a shallow insecure thug. I hope he changes, but the thing is if he does his church will quickly become an average church of 200 people.

    • ConCal

      He is your Brother in Christ!

      • Andrey Taranov

        Of course he is, but he is also = (shallow insecure thug). Sounds harsh but that’s what it is. Jesus said to Peter you are of Satan, now that was extremely harsh. Sometimes that’s what you need in a “secular church”. I don’t mean John Macarthur but the average American church.

        • ConCal

          Brother, please don’t use God Word to justify your vitriol. I can’t say one way or another who was wrong in this situation, but your words are just used to damage and not repair or even rebuke.

          • Andrey Taranov

            You can always read the article a couple of times to see who is wrong or right. If you think my words are to much then may I recommend you look into the prophets of the Old Testament. How they responded to false prophets, false teachers, Kings and so on. There is not much of a difference between my response and their responses.

          • ConCal

            Your comment was not rebuking a flase teacher or prophet. It was talking bad about someone plain and simple.

          • Andrey Taranov

            Don’t agree with you. With that logic the person that wrote this blog was talking bad as well. All the sermons John did on charismatic movement “Benny Hinn” were all (bad talk). Anyway I can see this is going nowhere. No point arguing online, I would gladly debate you in person on this matter but that’s not possible. We are both Christian so be can chat about this subject in heaven. 🙂

          • ConCal

            To put it simply, the diffrence is who you were writing to. You weren’t writing to Mark; you were writing to other Christians ABOUT Mark.
            Secondly, it would fine if you wrote HOW Pastor Mark was a False Teacher, but all you did was dispariage his character in a demeaning way. You did not go after his Theology or even come close.
            So, please do not elevate your self so much to think your vitrol was anything other than hate.

          • Ed Dingess

            And Paul was writing to other Christians ABOUT Peter. Mark is a guy who claims to hear directly from God. He claims that God shows him pornography in the Spirit. He calls men up on stage to punch him in the face (too bad he doesn’t come to Charlotte). His fame is the product of young, hip, know-it-alls who want a Christianity that they have invented. One that kicks the traditional, conservative version. Without this shallow, young crowd, no one would know Mark Driscoll. God is not showing Driscoll visions of people having sex. He is not speaking directly to Mark. You don’t have to punch a guy in the face to be a man. To claim that God is speaking to you is one of the most serious things a person could EVER do. Why do we not understand that? It is because our respect, regard, and appreciation for God resides in the basement. Like everything else, we presume upon Him and think it is no big deal to misrepresent Him in just about any way we please.

          • Paula Coyle

            Ed we need more men like you and Andrey. Seriously. I’m tired of spineless “Christian” men. They make me want to react like a contentious woman. When I see courageous men taking a stand, I have this funny emotional reaction that completely relaxes me and makes me feel utterly joyful, like I could follow a pastor like that to the end of the earth… if I could FIND one. 🙂 Thank you for being unafraid of such criticism.

          • Paula Coyle

            “You weren’t writing to Mark; you were writing to other Christians ABOUT Mark.”

            I see the apostles and prophets doing that a lot when they warn people about false teachers. Try again. It’s very sad when men rebuke other men for being truthful and honest and calling a spade a spade because they are too afraid to do so themselves.

          • Paula Coyle

            “Brother, please don’t use God Word to justify your vitriol.”
            I have to wonder if you’ve ever read it.

            “I can’t say one way or another who was wrong in this situation,”
            Well, if you actually looked at the video, and seen the tweets, you can’t possibly NOT know who was wrong. Saying you “can’t say” is the cowardly answer for someone who is too busy or lazy or apathetic to look into the matter before hypocritically judging Andrey for a much smaller ‘offense’ if there is even any ‘offense’ in anything he wrote. (I would say, there isn’t, it’s completely accurate, but then, I’ve spent some time looking into the matter, as well as many others concerning Mark Driscoll, and far too many other “pastors,” aka hirelings, like him.)

            I would also question whether or not Mark is my brother in Christ.

            There, Andrey should look much more reasonable now.

          • ConCal

            Isn’t that what Pastor Mark was doing? Except Pastor Mark didn’t just talk garbage like you and many other people are doing. He took it to the people he had theological issues with and because of that, you are now justifying all kinds of name calling.
            All Pastor Mark was doing was calling a spade a spade and he was man enough to do it to their face. And by some twist if logic you find it okay on the internet, but just not face to face.
            Mark never called anyone names he just brought attention to the misguidedness that was going on at the confrence.

          • Andrey Taranov

          • ConCal

            I was never trying to defend anything Pastor Mark did. However, I was trying to point out the bashing of him to be dishonoring of God. I know you disagree and feel its important to write that stuff about fellow believers.
            We’ll just agree to disagree I suppose.

          • elainebitt

            “He took it to the people he had theological issues with and because of that, you are now justifying all kinds of name calling.”

            “it”. What are you referring to? What exactly Mr. D took it to whom?

          • ConCal

            I was referring to how he directly went to the people of the confrence.

          • elainebitt

            You’re are not serious, right? This is not rocket science, it doesn’t take too much brains to see that he didn’t go there to reason about theological differences. He went there with the sole purpose of disrupting that conference with his childish, spoiled boyish, agree-with-me-or-else-I-will-run-you-over-with-my-bus attitude.

            You cannot be that naive.

          • ConCal

            Don’t be so Trite.
            The reason Strange Fire got so much press is because there are some huge theologically damming accusations. It was obvious he went there with the purpose to confront these ideas.
            So, to your point. I do agree he went there to stir things up. But not out of his, “childish, spoiled boyish, agree-with-me-or-else-I-will-run-you-over-with-my-bus attitude”
            He went to stir things up because of theological differences. If you impartially explained this situation to most people they would say, it wasn’t out of a childish attitude. It was out of sincere confrontation of the conference not teaching Biblical Truth.

      • Ed Dingess

        Is he? And you know this how? Why is it perfectly okay to judge someone as genuinely saved but almost blasphemous to judge them as unlikely so? I cannot say if Mark Driscoll knows Christ or not. Somedays I lean to yes, others I lean to maybe not.

  • pmoses987

    Per Matt. 18, should we be confronting other believers in an “open letter” on a bog? I am asking sincerely… Thoughts?

    • muzjik

      When Driscoll sent his disingenuous promotion stunt out to his 428,247 twitter followers, 39,556 Instagram and 218,335 Facebook friends, including a photo of this man, he sort of forfeited the right to be approached privately…don’t you think?

      • pmoses987

        lol…. I don’t know. That’s why I’m asking! I do know Matt. 18 doesn’t mention Twitter and Facebook (and certainly not Instagram!).

        I think that any time we expose dirty laundry to the world, it’s dangerous.

        I also know that confronting is a loving process – but only if it brings shame over the sin (not heaping shame in public on the sinner).

        • jeff

          agreed. it’s a great letter that should have been sent to Driscoll. claiming you know this letter will probably never reach him yet call him out and tell him to ask for forgiveness. this should not be open. not gonna lie though, i enjoyed reading it.

          • Ed Dingess

            Anything to give your heroes a pass? Those who sin openly and publicly, rebuke before all. We cannot allow this kind of open shame to be swept under the rug. Your suggestion is more influenced by modern, western politics than it is biblical Christianity in my opinion.

        • Christian

          1Ti 5:20

          Reprimand those leaders who sin. Do it in front of everyone so that the other leaders will also be afraid. (GW)

          If he sinned inside the church, he should be reprimanded inside the church. If he sin in front of the world, via FB, Twitter, Instagram etc, he should be reprimanded in front of the world. It goes with being a leader, and it is biblical.

          • Eddie Wakes

            It seems some of us are placing more trust on “wishful thinking” than on what scripture clearly teaches about that all too neglected and Biblically mandated ministry…Church Discipline. As a result, many congregations, denominations, etc., have no doctrinal recourse when facing the rampant sin and religious relativism…the “Take it, or leave it” attitude offered to God! The Church, at large, is culpable for people like Mr. Driscol; affording them the freedom to be so cavalier with such an outrageously sinful misuse of God’s Pastoral Office, His Church, His word and His Son.

          • Christian

            Well said.

          • Paula Coyle

            True but many of his elders have tried to hold him accountable, and for that they were church disciplined or otherwise forced out. Same with James Macdonald. They’ve learned a thing or two from reading Rick Warren’s purpose driven bus driving manual.

          • elainebitt

            The reference to the bus is quite fitting Paula!

          • Paula Coyle

            Ever notice how so few of our leaders (not limited to Driscoll) are happy with slamming ‘discernment bloggers’ or anyone who actually dares criticize error, but they won’t criticize their colleagues in error? Seems kind of backward.

        • minimay7

          You are also assuming that Mark Driscoll hasn’t been approached personally and at a church level before he has been exposed in public manner.

          Long before this drama, he has been contacted by John MacArthur regarding his butchering God’s word and his shameful way of allowing reproach with the way he speaks on pulpit.

          Now with his endorsement of TD Jakes, Rick Warren and Joel Osteen, this is no longer in a territory of a member of church sinning within church and dealing with them on a personal level.

          Mark Driscoll is a dangerous man influencing many souls.

        • muzjik

          If you look around, you can find accounts of what happened when elders in his church confronted him personally according to Matt. 18.

        • You ask an honest question pmoses987, that I think Christian answered rightly AND biblically. IT IS DANGEROUS… the question is, for whom? It’s dangerous for the pastor, in this case, for Mark Driscoll, and there’s a reason why pastors are held to a different standard in 1 Tim. 5:20. They live a public ministry, and are therefore to be rebuked PUBLICALLY. Other translations say, “Rebuke them in the presence of ALL, so that the rest might also live in fear.” This is another reason why James tells us that “Not many of you should become teachers, for they incur a stricter judgment” (3:1).

          That being said, I was also there with Darren (though I fortunately dodged Driscoll’s media guy). I also heard him turn and say, “Please take them, please, they’re my gift to Grace Church.” The director of GTY then said, “Ok, thank you.”

        • elainebitt

          “I do know Matt. 18 doesn’t mention Twitter and Facebook (and certainly not Instagram!).”

          The medium used has nothing to do with the issue. The issue is what he did. And certainly who he is. He is not a person who no one knows.

          Was Paul wrong in confronting Peter publicly?

        • Paula Coyle

          “I think that any time we expose dirty laundry to the world, it’s dangerous.”

          They already see it. They aren’t stupid.

          When we acknowledge it, they realize we are not all as self-deluded as they thought we all were.

          • elainebitt

            “I think that any time we expose dirty laundry to the world, it’s dangerous.”

            Is he seriously suggesting that we act like hypocrites? I don’t think he thought his statement through.

            Peter should had taken Ananias and Sapphira to another room and rebuke them in private then.

      • Eddie Wakes

        Scripture is clear very about pastors who fail: they are to be exposed publicly because of the horrendous damage they do from that place of high visibility, impact and influence. It is tragic to witness a Leader who suffers a moral failure and requires Church discipline and removal from their position….very sad!

    • Amanda Thompson

      well, pmoses, I think that since Mark Driscoll publicly tweeted/instagrammed/facebooked his side that it is only appropriate for Darren to post his side. It also was not a personal sin against Darren but rather a public lie. I could be wrong, but those are my thoughts.

      It is sad when there is disunity in the body or even a need to expose sin. However, I think that calling someone to repentence is not an emotional exercise–and especially not on the part of the person in question (the person who wrote this letter).

      As per your question about whether Jesus would publicly call someone out on sin, I do think that Jesus would–look at how he handled the money-changers at the temple and how he constantly called out pharisees PUBLICLY. To not call out a public sin when it is obviously a sin can almost be like condoning it. And i think it is a misnomer to call confrontation unloving. It can be done in an unloving matter–and that is wrong. BUT to confront is actually quite loving. Sin kills and destroys and has enslaving power. To wake someone up from that is the greatest kindness we can do for them. In fact, it is what the Gospel did for us

      • pmoses987

        Hey Amanda! We can take the conversation over here as well (we are talking about this on her Facebook page). Here’s my reply:

        First, I agree with what you said…

        I’m just concerned about whether or not confronting someone publicly is loving.

        Biblical confrontation is loving – as it’s purpose is to cause the sinner to feel shame for their sin and draw them to repentance and to Christ. I’m just concerned that this open letter is heaping shame on the sinner in public.

        As for Jesus publicly confronting me – as he did the tax collectors… I don’t want to confuse Jesus’ zeal for His Father’s house and use that as a prescription for confronting public figures.

        I guess when in doubt, I would look to Matt. 18 as my guide. And then, if I had questions, I would consult my elder about the appropriate response.

        Which… in this case… is interesting, as GTY’s elders have not publicly rebuked Mark. Why is that? And shouldn’t we be following their lead on this?

        • Amanda Thompson

          I am not a GTY or GCC elder so I can’t answer “why.” I don’t see anything wrong about what Darren wrote–did you read it? It was quite loving and even gentle. I am sorry you don’t agree with it…I see things differently.

          I don’t need to speak for Darren, although I know him personally and know his character well. He has had many conversations with many people about this–including pastors and elders at GCC. Although I do not know the content of those conversations, I know the character of the man and that he did what he did out of sincere love for Christ, His church, and even for Mark Driscoll. If you don’t agree with that, I think you might want to write to Darren yourself and ask him.

          In fact, are you not publicly disagreeing/calling out Darren by this?

        • Christian

          Discipline is also love. When I am in doubt, I take the whole of the NT, in context, as my guide. There is a time for love but there is also a time to rebuke. This letter from Darren was written in love and I see no fault in his actions. GTY’s silence might be because they have no prove and therefor chose to stay out of it. Which is the right thing to do. Darren was on site, knows those involved and saw the whole thing playing out. As a watchman on the wall, he had to speak up, and he did. Well done.

          1Ti 5:20
          Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. (KJV)

          Reprimand those leaders who sin. Do it in front of everyone so that the other leaders will also be afraid. (GW)

          This scripture cover Darren’s actions.

          • pmoses987

            Great response, Christian!

            Good passage for this context. Thanks!

        • Ed Dingess

          Hmmm….Paul rebuked Peter openly and so did Jesus. Why? Because Peter’s sin was public. And both of them were rather harsh by American standards. We have got to stop allowing American culture to define love for Christianity. It is a radically hedonistic, materialistic arrogant culture.

          • Jonathan

            Do you really think that Jesus or Paul rebuked Peter in front of the world? Or simply in front of the church (those brothers and sisters who were present)? A little different than this I’d say. And why has the security guy not been encouraged to do so?

          • Ed Dingess

            Look, Driscoll lied to over a million people now. Where is your loyalty? It seems that it is to something other than truth. There is no defense for what Driscoll did openly and publicly. He openly tried to defame MacArthur’s ministry. There is no honor in that. There is no Christ in that. You just seem upset that someone has exposed the guy for what he is. What do you think would happen. Security guy is able to find Driscoll (right). He confronts Driscoll (sure as if he could get to him at this point). And Driscoll tweets his public repentance? Have you not been reading about the act that Driscoll put on the entire time? He was not in the area. He just happened to have a reported and photographer with him? He was very nice? He gave them the books as a gift? Then pulled out a dagger before TMS was even in his rearview and tweeted a lie! It is enough to for him to sit down and shut up. He has NO credibility. He lost it long ago. This is just one more proof that he is not a leader. He is not a real man. Real men don’t do such cowardly things.

          • Jonathan

            well Ed, i am not really angry at all, my hero is neither Mark Driscoll or John MacArther. Probably just like you, it’s Jesus. I just like to give the people the benefit of the doubt, and I know that whether our sins are aired in public or kept in private we are all guilty without the imputed righteousness of Christ. He is our righteousness, and we all are in congruent to what we believe in some ways; that’s all of us. We can all be hypocrites on any given day, on any given subject. And we all have things to learn from each other and the Word as the Spirit enlightens us to it’s truth. Mark, nor John, you or me have been perfected, and i thank God everyday for the grace He gives me everyday yes to sustain me, but also to forgive me and persevere with me. I need to extend that grace to others. As I watched the video, and looked at the tweet, my heart breaks. I am just glad that there is not always a video on my life and everything i think and say are not recorded on twitter for the world to see. I don’t know why Mark would do such a thing, but I do know that if God can forgive me of all my sin, i need to forgive my brother of his. There may be other consequences for that action, but i need to forgive as I have been forgiven, i need to accept as I have been accepted. Real men know their brokenness before a Holy God.

          • Ed Dingess

            I am amazed that you can take only that part of Scripture that provides for forgiveness but not the part that demonstrates that true forgiveness is demonstrated in true repentance. Mark Driscoll lied in an obvious attempt to publicly slander John MacArthur and Grace To You ministries. It was a blatant and public act of shame and dishonor that paints a picture of Christianity that is reprehensible as if we have no standards. That behavior MUST be called out publicly and rebuked openly for the sake of the gospel, for the sake of Christ, for the sake of Christianity, for the sake of Mark, and for the sake of John MacArthur. IT IS THE ONLY DECENT AND CHRISTIAN THING TO DO! A Christianity without high standards is no Christianity at all. It is a cheapened, watered-down version of a religion that does not take itself seriously, and nor does anyone else. Modern American Christianity has lost it’s credibility BECAUSE of acts just like this. Not Driscoll’s, yours my friend. The great sin of tolerance in the name of grace has become the great lie of the serpent. If we all took your approach, no one would be able to disciple, correct, or rebuke anyone at all.

          • elainebitt

            “11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because hestood condemned. 12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. 13 The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. 14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?”

            Who does “ALL” (v. 14) refer to, in the context?

        • Paula Coyle

          “Biblical confrontation is loving”

          Kind of like Jesus should have gone privately to the money changers first? And not openly called the pharisees all the names he called them, and told the faithful people to stop listening to them?

    • minimay7

      A public figure pulls a public stunt, publicly lie, and defame a believer and posts that believer’s picture publicly… I say the man needs to be publicly addressed.

      Also, the content here sound more like Darren is pleading him to apologize in a very gentle manner. He himself has been put into this situation by his picture being posted everywhere without his permission. How else would you address the issue? How else would you close such letter if you are a believer? Is there any other message than someone to repent if there was wrong been done?

    • Mike

      He has been contacted privately about this, by several people, including myself, via Twitter. He has ignored them.

    • Paula Coyle

      Yes. We should. Who in the world has access to Mark Driscoll?
      Mark them publicly.

  • maria johannesen

    What about taking the brother aside first, face to face, in private, and trying to make him repent..?

    • Paula Coyle

      Did you do that to Darren Weibe, Maria?

      • maria johannesen

        Good respons Paula. But no, I reckoned he wanted the debating here.

      • Dan Beverley

        This is an “open letter” to Mark Driscoll. So Darren put this in public. And he did it in a blog, and blogs very much invite thoughts and replies. Maria’s question seems appropriate in that light and context. Whereas it seems that Darren should have sought, first, to contact Mr. Driscoll. I am no fan or supporter of Mr. Driscoll. Very. much. not. that. Also very much not a “fan” of Mr. Macdonald. Never have been. And likely never will be. I’ve heard him preach live, and he is impressive, but not to my tastes in style or, in a way, theologically. *Whenever* I have heard or seen Mr. Macdonald preach, I’ve pretty much rolled my eyes. More a taste thing than a matter of doctrine. And…I feel similarly about Mr. Driscoll.

        But…I think that this blog, and the comments in support of it, they *may* be misrepresenting what actually went on. Mr. Driscoll *may* have felt the books confiscated, EVEN AFTER he’d let them have them. And…if he has done wrong to Darren, I think Darren should try to contact Mr. Driscoll directly, and seek restoration.

  • What a great “letter”, well and graciously done.
    Not surprised by this latest antic, one wonders what Driscoll & Co. will come up with next..Lord, have mercy.

  • Charles Page

    everybody stands to gain by this stunt, even an innocent bystander! There is no looser!

  • Warner Aldridge

    Amen brother. Did you send this to him.

  • MShep2

    It seems most posting comments here have missed Darren’s main point: Driscoll tweeted a lie (“Security confiscated my books”) to his followers. While he also said he didn’t believe it was right for him to crash the conference and hand out books, that was not his main point. You my love Dever, but he needs to answer for lying on Twitter.

    Whenever someone is publicly confronted, those against such confrontation usually use the following arguments:

    1. Jesus loved everyone. Can’t we just all get along?
    2. MATTHEW 18!!!!!!!

    But for some reason, they forget the following is also in the Bible:

    1.Jesus publicly confronted religious leaders who had sinned publicly. (e.g. Mark 12:34 “Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.”) Hmm. Doesn’t sound very loving.

    2. Peter confronted a public lie ONLY publicly and two people died (Acts 5:1-11). Hmm. Peter, didn’t you know you were supposed to go to them privately first??????

    3. Paul, in his epistles, told us to confront and rebuke those who are in error. And, as someone already mentioned, when it is an elder, “Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear.” (1 Tim. 5:20). Paul put this into practice when he publicly rebuked Peter (Gal. 2:14).

    4. Jude, in the last book in the N.T. before Revelation, says, “I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.” “Contend earnestly” doesn’t seem very lovey-dovey, but it is necessary if the church is to be kept pure before God.

    So, Darren, thank you for your letter. Your words are gracious but properly confrontational to another believer who is in error.

    • CPS

      LOL…while it was obviously a typo, I couldn’t resist giggling when you called Driscoll “Dever” at the end of your first paragraph.

      Good post, though! 🙂

      • MShep2

        Ha, ha. Ok, I fixed it. For some reason I must always check myself to remember which one is which. Must be because my name is also Mark.

    • Darren Wiebe

      Thank you for the Biblical examples of public confrontation. My goal has to be faithful to the Word of God as well.

      2 Timothy 3:24-26 states: “And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.”

      • MShep2

        I think one of the most important things is to be sure you are right when confronting publicly. The Youtube video is very clear – he said one thing and then tweeted another.

  • Mary Sammons

    Very bold but I agree with everything you said. I hope he does the right thing.

  • joyful44

    Great response. Thank you for calling out sin and not letting those that have risen on a pinnacle get by with the fleshly failings in public so as to bring others down. Hold true to the faith. It is disgusting that leaders behave in this manner but there has been much written about Driscoll erring from biblical truth. The devil is not at work in the world, his work is within the church so as to ruin and destroy the sheep with the likes of men who have fallen from grace into their own glory.

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  • George M. Igawa Jr.

    Character Reference:
    Christian/brother, Sgt Tom (LAPD Ret.) is of the HIGHEST MORAL FIBER! (the one seen in the picture above)
    I’ve ALWAYS have had pleasant interfaces with him at several Shepherds Conferences. I got to know him on a more personal level through a close mutual friend! He is a “gentlemen” in every sense of the word. Hard to reconcile in my mind a kind, CHRISTian gentlemen like Tom as a rough, tough, Ret. LAPD Sgt. (viz., Sgt. Joe Friday / Dragnet, “…. just the facts …). but OBVIOUSLY they do exist.
    God bless you brother Tom. (Nu. 6:24ff).

  • Dina Miceli

    I have to say that you sir are just as offensive… As a brother and future pastor you have an obligation to speak to him privately, not publically. Perhaps your 15 minutes of fame went to your head. I don’t know the full story, and I’m sure you don’t either.. May the Lord be the judge. May He be the One that brings conviction to those involved…
    I certainly wouldn’t want you to be my pastor, you come across very condemning. This whole thread and other threads that I have seen have come across as anything but Christ like… You take away from my Saviors Glory when you behave in a manner that the world does, ie.. politicians, celebrities, and such (mud slinging).. Remember we are called to be light. We are called to a higher standard….

    • Darren Wiebe

      Dina, I’m sorry that you feel I’ve been offensive or arrogant, that is certainly not my heart. My prayer is that there would be restoration and as you referred to, I do not want to my conduct to be in the manner of the world. You’ve called me to a higher standard, the same standard in fact, that is what I was calling for Pastor Mark to as well. I’m more concerned about his actions and testimony misrepresenting Christ and His Church. Calling someone to acknowledge and confess their sin is not an unbiblical action, the cross lays us all on equal footing there.
      2 Timothy 2:24-26 states: “And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.”

      I have done my best to correct with gentleness, with the goal that there may be repentance. I too, am upset with the quarreling and volatile talk that has spread across the internet as well. This is why I did not try to pick a fight, but simply acknowledge a public sin of deception, that needs to be confessed publicly. I hope you can join me in praying for Pastor Mark, that he will act like the man of God that he has been called to be.

      • Dan Beverley


        Is. it. possible…that Mark viewed the books as confiscated, and when offered them, felt, and said, “Go ahead and keep em, as a gift,” is it possible that he viewed them as *initially* confiscated, and though in the end, gave them as a gift when they were offered back to him, that that initial confiscation MEANT they were, as he tweeted, *confiscated*, and thus, was NOT bearing false witness, even though, in the end, he offered to them to keep them? Is that not a possible, reasonable way for Mark to view all of this? That is, *he* intended to distribute them. They were *confiscated* so that he couldn’t. So…HIS purpose was thwarted by confiscation, *even though* he, in the end, let them keep them.

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  • Zelda F Williams

    May we all be reminded that GOD’s grace is enough to cover all our sin. Pray for Mark Driscoll that The HOLY SPIRIT will reveal what was really in his heart that day, and grant to him repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth of what he did. There are ways of doing things, and that wasn’t GOD’s way. I am reminded of this verse:

    giving no cause for offense in anything, so that the ministry will not be discredited, 2 Corinthians 6:3 NASB

    • minimay7

      Excuse~ me! Princess!

      (Okay… I just had to do it… Sorry. I know you heard that million times by now XD )

      Yes, I do hope and pray for Holy Spirit’s work to change the minds of these “reformed” leaders. Their hesitation to make decision regarding the charismatic issues is much bigger than a little stunt Mark pulled off last week.

      BTW… someone posted this vid and I think it explains who has been telling the lie…

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  • Heather Patenaude

    He’s doing the 10 Commandments…maybe when he gets to #9 he’ll come clean? Here’s hoping!

  • Wendy Nilsen

    Aw Darren, I’m sorry your friend was falsely accused. You are a true friend “who sticks closer than a brother”. Blessings friend!

  • stvnhthr

    Saying someone confiscated something is not painting them as a villain. Authority figures are allowed to confiscate things and not be “thrown under a bus.” Security did at first attempt to confiscate the books, and in the moment Mark offered them as a gift so they could still get put into people’s hands. So Mark did not lie, and it is possible to disagree without being disagreeable. Mark did not attach any ill motives or slander anyone’s character in stating his books were confiscated.

    • Eric Dodson

      Security did not initially confiscate his books. Tom offered to take the books to the man’s car.

      • stvnhthr

        When you work Security and you separate someone from their belongings even if you return them it is still legally considered confiscating. If the Security had not touched the items then it would not be
        considered confiscating, it comes down to who physically picked up the
        items and moved them. I’ve worked Security in the military so I understand the term; it is what good Security does-you separate an individual from their objectionable materials. The video you’ve linked proves my point, it does not disprove it. That being said this is a case of civil disagreement. No one is acting poorly in the video.

        • Guest

          Okay… except Grace to You took the books. Not the security department. The man on the right is the director, and it was one of his staff that took the books. Not security, and he’s the one who accepted the books. BUT “who took” the books isn’t the issue at all. The issue is that Driscoll said security “confiscated” his books. Clearly he was being deceptive, calling his integrity in ministry to question. BTW though… thank you for your service! What branch did you serve in? One of our authors from ParkingSpace23 is in the Army, and is right now in the chaplain candidacy program.

    • Eric’s right… they never attempted to “confiscate” his books. They offered to take them to his car, and Driscoll instead offered to give them “as a gift to Grace Church,” which was accepted. Well… to squash all speculation and the belief that it can’t be resolved because of the “he said, she said,” here’s the video.

  • MWorrell

    This is not the kind of matter that should be sorted out in public, and honestly it can’t be anyway. Lots of assigning of motives, jumping to conclusions, adopting a suspected narrative, all around. It is not redemptive in the least and reflects poorly on the church.

  • Paula Coyle

    “Pastor Mark, don’t be guilty of hiding your sin and ignoring it.”

    It wouldn’t be the first time. Do you not find it at all suspicious how many of the elders who have tried to serve as Nathan to Mark’s King David have vanished from Mars Hill, and how Mark made such an effort to rebuke John Macarthur in such a condescending way while being openly gracious and good natured about the heretic Joel Osteen? Seriously? When you see this stuff going on and the hills on which he chooses to fight, it shows just how much of a ‘Christian brother’ Mark really is.

  • huwwuh

    Driscoll is simply a wolf in wolfs clothing. That acts like a wolf, talks like a wolf and walks life a wolf. Conclusion….?
    Huw Thomas.

  • Mickey Keller

    This letter is nitpicky with undertones of jealousy. Mark Driscoll indeed sucks, but not so much for the aforementioned reasons. His misogyny-laced sermons trump poor/lazy social media-ing by a large margin. I’m surprised to see all the MD backlash as he is reaching a great many young people in a way that no one else has been able to do. In other words, he’s not Christ but he’s doing a lot for your team, is he not? Can I get an Amen?

    • Mickey Keller

      Do you capitalize “Amen?”

  • Brian Haack

    Well said bro

  • OneWay

    Hmmm… this would settle all disputes regarding the events that transpired that day, a video! …

  • Dan O.

    I’m mostly with you here, two things I want to say.
    1. I can’t jump in saying how enthusiastic I am about the blog post because we shouldn’t be excited about something like this, even if it’s a great comeback for the purpose of justice. That’s just my reply to a few of the other comments.
    2. While what Driscoll did was wrong, and while a public posting about it is fair game in light of the context, and while this upstanding man on security duty needs to have his name cleared, I do have to point out: We cannot say we know Driscoll’s motives. That’s going a little beyond what we know, so I’d suggest editing to say that “it appears to be scheming” or “it appears to be trying to pick a fight.” You cannot say with certainty, so give him grace despite his past track record for stunts.

    Anyway, hope that helps.

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  • KatR

    I am more than a little tired of watching Christians rush to sweep the bad behavior of Christian leaders under the rug by insisting that unacceptable public behavior be confronted in private. Did the security guard (who did nothing wrong) have the option of dealing with this all in private? No. But Driscoll’s defenders don’t seem to care one lick about that, because you are no one of worth unless you lead a big church and have a book deal.

  • Darren Wiebe

    Proverbs 27:17 reminds us that: “Iron sharpens Iron, and one man sharpens another.” That’s one of the primary goals of everything we do here on ParkingSpace23 (Yes, that was shameless self-promotion… check out the rest of the blog, we’re fun!). This encouragement from scripture should cause us to think about our words. Words can build each other up, and they also have to potential to deal a cutting blow. Words are important! If you need an example… read the letter again.

    It is good for us to dialogue about important things, but let’s remember “Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear” (Eph 4:29). This was my hope for this blog, and sadly, I’m seeing the opposite take place.

    I’m incredibly thankful for the majority of comments that have been made (yes, even the ones that challenge me personally…I wish I was perfect, but I’m not… just don’t tell my mom, she still thinks I’m a swell guy), but there has also been some mud thrown, which has not been helpful. The relative anonymity of blog comments does not negate the fact that the Lord is still watching, as well as an unsaved world. For the sake of Christ and His Church, do not forfeit your testimony. The point of this blog post was not to throw barbs and arrows. The goal is restoration, NOT defamation. The goal is restoration, NOT retaliation! If my words come across as otherwise, I apologize.

    Thank you… now comment on!

    • Well said, brother. I think you’re a swell guy too.

  • AnnMarie Moore

    Darren….This is off the subject but it surprises me that you are a Moody Bible Institute graduate and currently in Seminary, served as a Pastor but in your post you spelled the word “godly” with a small “g”…it should be a Capitol G…”Godly”…like I said, off the subject but just wanted to point that out….too many people do this and it is so clear in scripture that when referring to God it should be a capitol G

    • Darren Wiebe

      Good observation AnnMarie. Actually, when used in an adjectival form, the word loses the capital letter. You’ll even see this in scripture. Check out these verses in the ESV: Deuteronomy 33:8, Psalm 4:3; 32:6, 2 Corinthians 1:12. An appropriate verse for this blog 1 Timothy 2:2-3 “I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.”

      • Dan Beverley

        See my reply to Mr. Farlow. It stuns me that Christians believe “godly” means “like God,” or that it has anything to do with God other than meaning “God-fearing.”

    • No, actually that’s incorrect. When used as an adjective, small ‘g’ is correct. When used as a noun, capital ‘G’. Same with Bible and biblical.

      • Dan Beverley

        “Godly” isn’t an adjective for “like God,” or “God like,” so no capital is necessary ANY time for “godly,” except when it begins a sentence. It means “God-fearing,” or “To practice the presence of God,” or “to live as if God is present.”

        • I believe that’s what I said. God is the noun and should be capitalized (at least when talking about the one true God of the Bible) and godly is the adjective and should not be.

          • Dan Beverley

            But “godly” is not an adjectival form of “God.” There should never even be a question whether it is capitalized or not : – / And the explanation that “it is the adjectival form” implies that “godly” is the adjectival form of “God.”

            Actually not a BIG deal, really. But kind of a pet peeve of mine, that people think “godly” means “like God.”

  • AD

    How about a few more facts on the conversation between D and security? What was actually said?

  • Alfredo Z

    He says he doesn’t represent Grace but he goes to seminary there,& “serves in the music dept”. That doesn’t sound very honest, or rather perhaps he practicing what Steven Colbert calls “truthiness”? Pot calling the kettle black? I’m just sayin’…

  • Simon the Canaanite

    Here’s from the video of the encounter:

    Tom Hatter: “Yeah, we wanna give ’em BACK to ya.”

    If Hatter can give the books BACK, then he had already CONFISCATED them. Hatter is a ranking LAPD officer and knows that by taking the books, he had committed a crime.

    The large man to the right is Travis Allen, a Navy Seal. Travis has a kill count.

    Mark Driscoll was very gracious by offering to let Hatter keep the books which he had CONFISCATED. It shows genuine Christian compassion to look the other way and forgive Hatter’s sin.

    • Jordan S.

      Hey Simon if you can hear it, the man talking to driscoll says something like, “whether you hand them out or send people to the box its the same”. They moved the box to a table a few feet away thinking he would stop giving them out, but it didn’t stop he would just tell people to go grab one, so finally they just told him that they would take the books over to James Mcdonald, at that point Driscoll (you can see it in the video), realizes that his PR stunt would be compromised, decides to give it as a gift to Grace so that he could go to the car and tell his hundreds of thousands of twitter followers that they confiscated them not realizing that he is being recorded.

  • Truth Defenders

    does appear as if his books were taken but for the purpose of keeping
    him from distributing then, they were going to RETURN them, when it
    looks like he just figured they could have them. What is needed id info
    showing how they got his books to begin with. I don’t care for Driscoll,
    but if they did infact take his books pryor to him gifting then to
    those who took them, then he is not lying about the “confiscation”.

    • Eric Dodson

      The books had not been taken at the time of this video. They were on a table behind him, and he was still instructing people to take the books, despite the fact he had been asked to comply with conference rules regarding distribution. When presented with the rules, he asked “what are you going to do if I don’t stop?” Mr. Allen verified that he was refusing to stop distributing them, he then went to check on what protocol was and returned for the encounter seen in the video. The books were NOT in possession of anyone from GCC or GTY before Mr. Driscoll’s insistence that they were a gift.

  • Sheldon Cierley

    Why does this not surprise me? Mars Hill is bordering on cult status and Driscoll is headed toward Jim Jonesville.

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  • I’m sure you will receive a lot of hits on your blog too!

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  • To confront Mark this way doesn’t follow Matthew 18. Give him a call/email at his church. That is the way to keep this situation in a healthy way.

    • Young Calvinist

      Mr Driscoll told falsehood to thousands of his followers on Twitter/Instagram/Facebook about the incident.

    • Did you email the author of this blog before posting your comment publicly rebuking him for how he handled this?

  • Dan Beverley

    “Good sense makes one slow to anger, and it is his glory to overlook an offense.” – Proverbs 19:11

  • Steve Cha

    Anyone interested in reading any early book review of Strange Fire from a Christian author, here it is:

  • bryane

    Funny, a TMS guy complaining about a divisive publicity stunt. “Strange Fire,” anyone?

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  • Warren Throckmorton

    Darren, could you please contact me at warrenthrockmorton @ gm ail. c om? Thanks!

  • Honestatleast .

    Good job, Darren—this is what the church is supposed to do, though I rarely see it anymore.